Hello! And welcome to the very first issue of How We Listen. Thank you for being here.
Since we’re just getting started, I wanted to tell you about what you’re getting into here:
In an age of passive listening & algorithmic predominance, How We Listen is a music newsletter focused on the art of discovery: twice a month, I’ll be speaking to all kinds of interesting people about who they are and what they do, their relationship with music, how they find new music to fall in love with, and how that search has changed over the years.
Once every two weeks - delivered straight to your inbox - together with a few recommendations of the best music-related reads and news of the week, and suggestions from both myself and our guest to hopefully put you onto something you might not have been aware of yet. You can read more about what spurred the launch of this newsletter in our About page.
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And if you have any recommendations you want to share - new music, articles / podcasts to feature, or anything really - you can always reach me at howwelisten.newsletter@gmail.com.
It’s a sunny yet chilly morning in London today, and for HWL #01 we are kindly joined by Giles Bidder, host of the beloved music podcast 101 Part Time Jobs. In over 300 episodes, Giles has chatted with the likes of Brian Fallon (The Gaslight Anthem), Amy Taylor (Amyl and The Sniffers), politician Jeremy Corbyn, Matt Berninger (The National), Johnny Marr (pictured above with Giles) and so many more great personalities about - among other things - the financial difficulties of being an artist, especially in the early days. He has guest hosted BBC Radio 1’s Rock Show, stood at the top of the UK Music Podcasts charts, and he was also once part of the great British punk rock band Great Cynics (sorry Giles, had to mention it!)
I’ve been a fan and a listener of 101 Part Time Jobs for years, always impressed by how knowledgeable and passionate Giles is. I am very grateful for his time and support, and extremely happy that I get to have him on as first guest.
Keep reading to find out more about him, his podcast, and how he listens. Plus some articles to add to your favorite Read Later app this week, music recommendations from myself and Giles as well as a playlist with 7 songs worth checking out.
WHAT YOU SHOULD BE READING / WATCHING / LISTENING TO
STREAMING IS BROKEN, SO WHAT’S NEXT? (Pigeons & Planes)
The return of Pigeons & Planes as a standalone website - after about 6 years away - was very much welcome. They’ve delivered with great reads consistently since re-launching back early in 2026, and this article by Amaya Lim keeps the run going. Amaya curates playlist after playlist on newsletter Record Store and has started a curation platform/music community called turntable based on that (currently in beta test - I might just have to put my name in the hat and also reach out to Amaya to try and get her on the newsletter.)
In exploring a picture of future streaming alternatives (purchasing platforms, user-centric fee structures, etc) when skepticism towards the current leading platforms is at an all-time high, Lim is obviously an advocate for curation and intention - the ease of technology vs. the friction that ends up giving us more satisfaction. This closing paragraph hit close to home:
“Writing my newsletter, practicing guitar, painstakingly curating music, countless hours of software development on turntable–these are all examples of joyful work. The music people who are building the next generation of services know and love joyful work, because what makes music valuable is the emotional and practical labor that you can feel in every note.”
SAM SODOMSKY: THE REVIEWER GETS REVIEWED (Paste)
I chuckled here - Paste Mag reviews the new record by The Bird Calls, with a lil’ twist to it: The Bird Calls is the solo project of music journalist and Pitchfork editor Sam Sodomsky, so Paste commissioned 10 different artists to flip the script on Sodomsky and critique the songs on his album.
Today’s newsletter was edited and delivered while listening to the new record by rising Slovakian popstar ADÉLA.
Our interview with Giles starts now!
Giles, please tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do these days!
I’m a music fan. I played in bands, put on shows, was involved in all of it. And at some point in my mid-20s, I thought “damn, there’s no money in this.”
I realized that it’s an important conversation for loads of different reasons. To help inspire people, to help people find a connection with the artists they love and then the economic, political, cultural understanding of it. I think most people who go to a gig, who buy a ticket to go see a gig probably won’t really understand how difficult it is for artists to be there in the first place, and that it’s only getting harder.
And I was like, “I kind of want to do this for myself”. I want to reconcile this kind of confusing, complex situation. But as more time goes on over the last five, six years of the show, I’m really happy to keep on learning that it’s helpful for the culture as a whole.
Because the more we understand how people do it, the more helpful we can be. Ultimately music is an entire industry run out of passion, it’s not really run out of money. People don’t get into music for money, but you need money: you need money to exist, you need to pay rent.
And that’s the kind of bottom line for me. Music contributes so much to everybody personally. The more music, the more art that’s out there, extending into comedy and film and acting, the better the world will be. That’s the spirit behind it.
And that goes into physical spaces as well, like whether your area has a youth center. I was really lucky to grow up in a town where we had a youth center where the kids from all different types of schools would, once schools were clocked out at four o’clock, because some people didn’t want to go back to their families, or because they had a rough situation there.
What I’m interested in there is: how does that affect people? And it’s all about people. I’m interested in people. If you were to meet my family, they’d just ask you questions about yourself, and that’s where I’m coming from. I just like hearing about other people. I get excited about what other people do. That’s what makes me happy, seeing people do stuff and succeed and feel open to be themselves. And now, increasingly, it’s a protest to be yourself unapologetically.
That’s something that’s really, really important to me. And I feel incredibly lucky that I can do it. I’m so fortunate I found a way to be in a position where I could tell other people’s stories.
It’s evident when listening to your podcast, and how you interact with guests, that you are a musician yourself, and that you have been a touring musician specifically. Is that still a part of your life? Do you ever miss it?
101 Part Time Jobs does what I wanted to do with writing songs better than I ever did before. It took me a good while to be able to say it and understand it in this way: it’s connection and conversation. That’s what I wanted to do: make connection and conversation.
That was always the nugget of gold inside of me. That’s why I want to be here. Feeling like part of the bigger thing in the room. Now, with 101, I feel like I’m contributing to this conversation and I can use my experience for good.
There is a lot of pain that comes with being an artist because you’re really putting yourself out there. And in so many different ways, there’s always twists and turns, the way you see yourself can really fluctuate and your own sense of self can be so detached from reality.
That becomes difficult. I feel now that I can use my experience to make good, use my experience for positive. And my experience helps with interviewing bands and artists because not every interviewer has been in the shoes of an artist, in a Sprinter Van like the artists that I have had on have. So I think that immediately finds a connection. Sometimes it’s not even what I’m saying, it’s a bit of an energy, an acceptance.
Is that what keeps it vibrant for you after all these years, trying to find that connection? Or what is it?
I feel fortunate from an audience point of view that the way the world around us has changed, and is changing so quickly, actually makes our show more and more relevant every single day, which I feel grateful for: that I can contribute to that conversation and have some kind of part in people’s understanding about the way the world is changing. I think people are a lot more open about it now.
Because it’s right and fair that people talk about earnings, about being fair. We need to help each other now, now is the time that we really need to help each other. And sometimes that’s just talking.
One of the reasons I’ve been able to do 101 is because I lucked out and found a place I could live in that was affordable, and I’ve stayed here eight, nine years, and live with my partner. It’s just important to work out how to be sustainable.
I wrote a column for the i Paper for 10 years and for the first five years I didn’t get paid for it. I kept on asking them and eventually they did. It wasn’t much, but for those first five years I was writing a column that was valued by PRs, and it was valued by readers and artists. I was very happy to do it and I’d do it under the desk or in the toilet at my day job, but asking to be paid for it felt like I was “cap in hand”, asking for more.
The real damage of that is that identity thing where you’re an unpaid intern, and you don’t feel your own value and you don’t take your work importantly, because how can you? You know you’ve got nothing to back that up, and that’s the real damage. I think that’s a huge reason why there’s not much journalism today, because no one’s had an opportunity to get good at it, because they haven’t been paid for it.
That whole unpaid internship thing just killed the whole business.
Interview continues after a couple recommendations!
WHAT YOU SHOULD BE READING / WATCHING / LISTENING TO -
SAUL WILLIAMS OPENS A PORTAL BETWEEN POLITICS AND POSSIBILITY (NPR)
A powerful interview with poet, author, musician and actor Saul Williams (you might have seen him in last year’s Oscar-winning film Sinners, where he plays disapproving father & preacher Jedidiah Moore). He contends in the article, his music, and his upcoming book, that artists should be taking a stance.
“Music's job, then, becomes about are there any shortcuts to unraveling that? Because what does music do? It harmonizes. We can harmonize an entire stadium, an entire audience. And when that music has a message […] there's a chance that [we can open that] magical door. That's what I'm looking for through art.”
MARK HOPPUS INTERVIEWS TOBY! (One Life One Chance Podcast)
Mark Hoppus of blink-182 takes over for Toby Morse, vocalist of hardcore institution H2O on his podcast One Life One Chance, to interview the host about his upbringing & career. Toby is both a delightful and chaotic person and this is just a fun listen. About 40 minutes in they are joined momentarily by Toby’s son - who occasionally plays & tours with H2O - for a nice moment talking about their father-son relationship while on the road.
I also never thought I’d enjoy a 10-minute segment about cold plunges and wellness on a podcast but lo and behold Mark Hoppus can truly do it all.
HWL #01 - The Playlist
This week I’d like to recommend listening to the new Tiny Habits song “Towel”, from their brand new record - one of the best surprises of the year for me.
You can listen to it and 6 more new songs - including a recommendation from Giles - on the HWL mixtape.
You’ve been able to achieve quite a few milestones with the podcast – reaching the top of the music podcast charts multiple times, guest hosting the Rock Show on BBC Radio 1… Are you someone that attaches a lot of value to this kind of wins?
Radio 1 is massive, yeah. It felt so cool to be on Radio 1 and talk about High Vis, and say how I put on one of their first gigs in a pub down the road here in southeast London, to introduce their track and say “this is my story, what is yours?” I want that to inspire people.
I’m a bit of an “everyday, wake up and go” kind of guy. I probably don’t celebrate myself as much as I should. I don’t really pat myself on the back sometimes.
It’s always the next thing for me, that’s what I mean. The only thing that I’m really thinking about is, “what’s the next thing?” “What can I do that’s putting something good out there in the world?”
That’s 101. I feel so grateful to do 101 because it’s a whole project that’s based around that.
Doing 500 episodes, though, that was great. The milestone was when we had a party and my mom came, and she said it was the best night of her life. That’s what I’ll remember from that milestone.
To go around chatting to all these friends, labels, artists, PRs, chatting to them about their lives. That’s what I’ll remember about 101 reaching 500 episodes.
Let’s get into the topic at hand. I want to talk about how you discover music, starting with your younger years. How would you usually find a new artist you’d fall in love with eventually when you were a teenager?
My older brother, and my friends. Back then I would look at the gig listings on Kerrang! and NME and, if they were pretty interesting, then I would go listen to them. That’s how I found out a lot of bands - they were playing in London or near where I grew up. I was just desperate to go to gigs. Very early on, gigs became my social life. That’s how I made friends.
I was always more interested in the local bands, they always felt more important to me. I don’t know why. I would be happy to go see a big stadium show, but I was always more keen to go to the local ska punk or hardcore gig. The mixed local bill, which could be good ones, or it could be not so good ones. But just being there always felt more real.
How is it for you now in 2026? What’s the process like these days?
Working this job and having PRs understand my music taste, I’ll listen to anything they send me. Whether it’s big or no one’s ever heard it before. I’m lucky. It’s a music fan’s dream, just open the emails - I get 100 emails a day - and it’s just bands, bands, bands, bands, bands, bands, bands. Obviously, you can’t listen to it all, but you can try. YouTube’s pretty good for discoverability… KXP sessions, NPR. And support bands, of course.
The friend group WhatsApp, though, I think is probably the most consistent, powerful way to do music. There’s no better PR than just someone telling their mate, “holy shit, have you heard this? You’ve got to come with me to the gig.”
My favorite time to listen to music is before I’m going out and I just sit in the house, get ready, do my hair, put some clothes on… That consistent environment scenario. I remember being a teenager and making these new friends and going around their house, everyone had their GHDs, the girls were doing their straight hair, and the boys too. We’d listen to Enter Shikari, and Gallows, and Bring Me The Horizon. That’s a good environment to listen to music in.
Do you think it would be vastly different for you if you didn’t have the podcast? You wouldn’t have PRs filling your inbox every minute of the day, obviously, but as a clearly very passionate music fan, how different do you think it would be for you?
Putting myself in my friend’s positions, who don’t do this kind of work... A phrase that always comes up, and that I think probably most people feel like now, is “I’m out of the loop”.
There’s so much music out there. It’s hard to say, but some stuff comes across you and you get into it, other stuff doesn’t and you maybe never hear it.
And that’s why festivals are important. Primavera Sound is obviously a legendary one, End of The Road and Green Man are huge. This kind of curation is really important now. It always has been. Just looking at the playlist that End of the Road and Green Man put out, I think it’s probably one of the best ways you can get into music.
They’ll put on the bands and artists that don’t have a million fans who have been booked because of their music and only their music.
And even if those bookers are booking it because they know the agent and there’s more of a legacy route, the agent is probably working with them because they’re good.
I think you’ve got to trust. I like to think the music industry is people who just really care and love about music, because why else would you do this? You’ve got to work and put so many days and hours and years into doing stuff for very little money. To stick at it, I like to think that you’ve got to be a real big music fan who gets excited and sees music.
There’s loads of great stuff out there. There’s always new stuff to be found.
Have you ever had a moment like that yourself, like the friends you mentioned that feel out of the loop – did you ever have moments when you felt a little bit out of touch, or not willing to get into new music?
Yeah. You can definitely get fatigued or overwhelmed. And it’s probably part of human nature, we don’t like what we don’t know and we don’t like what we don’t understand. So you need to get over that to ultimately get rewarded for it. When you pick up a CD or you see something, you think “I’m not sure.” But when you actually get into it, that’s a really great feeling. And that’s just something you have to do yourself, no one else can make you do that, but more often than not, you’re going to get rewarded for it.
When it comes to shortform content, platforms like TikTok – do you ever fall in love with artists you’ve found through those avenues?
I find artists who I think are funny. Lewis Capaldi’s a great example. Or someone who’s really eloquent: anytime you see CMAT on the red carpet, she says something that makes you think “this person is interesting, is on the right side of history, is making a positive impact on culture.”
I think that can really elevate an artist. And that’s what we want to do for 101. We want to put out stuff that makes people go “wow, this band’s really interesting”.
We just did a reel with Westside Cowboy, they’re part of this collective in Manchester called No Band Is An Island, and they just started working with UK-Med, this humanitarian charity in Manchester. If you see that, you think this band has something to believe in, and believing in something is a real protest now. It is a rally to believe in something, and we’re seeing more of that in music.
It’s no longer just the song, it’s not just the music. It’s the culture around it and the importance and the value of it. Is it helpful? Is it helping people get through their lives? Is it not making other people’s lives harder? Is it contributing? Is it helping the world around us? I think more and more people are seeing that.
I’m very interested in the relationship between podcast listening and music listening. You tend to think that they are very different things that don’t intersect. But time is finite, right? There’s only so much time we have these days. Has podcast listening had an effect on your music listening time?
I think the cool thing about podcasting is that it can be like the theater of the mind. It can be really calming, and soothing, and kind of meditative to listen to a podcast.
I think a lot of people’s behavior with podcasts versus music is [based on] where they are. Are they getting the train to work? Are they at home doing the cleaning? And with music, are they listening to the radio? Are they listening to Alexa at home and asking it to play 6 Music?
For me, it’s based on that. I listen to Radio 3 Unwind at night, it helps me go to sleep. I will listen to podcasts on a Sunday, if I just need to get out of the house because I know it’s going to make me feel better, and just go for a walk. And then music for me, thankfully, is work, so every day I’m listening to music. I think people do associate physical places with podcasts or music.
A big part of this newsletter is word of mouth. Are there any artists or songs that you’ve particularly enjoyed recently that you want to shout out?
They’ve been around for a few years, but caroline I think are one of the most innovative, interesting artists out there. The new Ratboys album is amazing, “Singin’ to an Empty Chair”. Madra Salach, people are writing about them quite a lot, I really recommend them.
An old one that I just got recommended from Run For Cover’s Instagram is this band Acetone, who I immediately liked.
And I’ll give you one more recommendation: Jasmine Myra, she’s amazing. It’s instrumental, orchestral, pretty chill. It’s really great.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Before you go, don’t forget to listen to Giles’s recommendations! I will vouch for the new Ratboys record as well - opening song “What’s Right” has been on constant rotation this year. They’ve also coincidentally just appeared on NPR’s Tiny Desk and announced a deluxe edition of the album, featuring covers of their songs by PUP, Wild Pink, and others.
See you in a couple of weeks! If you haven’t yet - don’t forget to subscribe to receive the next issue in your inbox.
So many interesting points raised about the music industry and music in general in this chat! Quite depressing and exciting at the same time. :D also, new Ratboys is unreal!